Guantanamo, marteling & behalen doelen

[Henk Elegeert]

REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl

Cees,

;) Blij dat je erover begint:

Call President Obama at 202 456 1414 and ask him to investigate the US torture
Zie ook: http://openheidoverirak.nu/forum/index.php?topic=163.0

Henk Elegeert


2009/4/23  <ceesbink at xs4all.nl>:
> REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl
>
> Er is al veel gezegd en geschreven over de gebruikte verhoor methoden in
> Guantanamo en soortgelijke (geheime) kampen.
> Hieronder het commentaar van een Amerikaanse krijgsgevangene uit Vietnam,
> die het zelf heeft ondergaan.
>
> Saillante punten:
> - geen gebruik van bestaande kennis
> - betrokken hebben (meerdere) academische opleidingen gehad, maar keken
> niet verder dan neus lang was, ondanks vermeende onderzoekskwaliteiten
>
> Mijn observaties:
> - veel groupthink
> - de (typisch Amerikaanse?) patriottische druk
> - doelbewuste misleiding om einddoel te bereiken, door juridisch sausje
> over twijfelachtige standpunten (vnl. door Cheney en volgelingen)
> - sommige (tot enkele maanden geleden) leidinggevenden denken nog steeds
> dat het effectief was (dus blind voor uitkomsten)
> - ik zal een aanzienlijk deel van Amerikaanse houding/politici nooit
> begrijpen/bevatten (wél zien/onderkennen)
>
> Groet / Cees
>
> http://community.nytimes.com/article/comments/2009/04/22/us/politics/22detain.html
> In Adopting Harsh Tactics, No Look at Past Use - Readers comments:
> There is a source of knowledge of torture and its effectiveness and
> results that was not considered. I was a POW in North Vietnam for six
> years. Torture and brutality far in excess of what is ever used in SERE
> training were routinely used by the North Vietnamese. To the best of my
> knowledge, no former POW has been queried about what works and what
> doesn't work. I am a member of a communications net that includes almost
> all former POWs and I have posed the question of whether any of us had
> been consulted. No one responded. In addition, each of us were extensively
> debriefed after the war. The debriefings were taken with the assurance
> that they would be permanently classified so that former POWs would be
> shielded from recrimination and embarrassment. They are all on file at the
> Joint Personnel Recovery Agency at Fort Belvior, Va, only a few miles from
> Washington.
>
> SERE training is arduous and unpleasant, but it is only training. Each
> trainee knows that those abusing him will be in big trouble if they injure
> him and that the training will be over in a few days. It does not compare
> to the real thing and anyone who bases their expertise and conclusions
> about torture and its utility on mere observation of SERE training simply
> does not know what he is talking about.
>
> I can't help but conclude that all the people mentioned in this article
> were way out of their league on this issue, and they didn't use the
> resources available to them to educate themselves. Many of them have
> several degrees from prestigious universities where they supposedly
> learned the discipline of research and analysis, but in this case they did
> neither.
>
> Torture is effective in obtaining superficial compliance. You tell them
> what they want to hear. The important stuff is always hidden behind lies
> and evasions. You learn to hate them, and finally you learn to overcome
> your hatred so as to be more effective in resisting them in every possible
> way. In the end the torturers delude themselves by using torture as a
> substitute for real intelligence work. Jails around the world are filled
> with people who gave false confessions under duress while the real
> criminals go free because the police were too lazy or inept to do the real
> police work.
>
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