The Power of Prayer

[Henk Vreekamp]

REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl

Ach ja, ik was veruit de eerste om te voorspellen dat Barry Obama 
programmatisch nauwelijks verschilde van McCain. Fanatiekelingen op deze 
lijst vielen over me heen. Maar ja, het begon al met de uitbreiding van de 
Amerikaanse interventie in Afghanistan.

Wat mij nu boeit is de manier waarop onze fanatici (onderdeel 90% bevolking 
die pro-Obama was) zullen reageren. Wat zal de weerslag zijn? Een golf 
conservatisme? Of juist een hausse aan hedonisme, zo van het maakt toch 
niks uit wat we hopen etc.?

Uit Amerikaanse discussielijsten maak ik  trouwens op dat het enige 
progressieve van Obama schuilt in zijn mogelijke milieupolitiek - naar het 
schijnt. Een lichtpuntje, maar ook niet zo opwindend, want vrijwel geheel 
ge-end op het EU-beleid van de laatste tien jaar. Een inhaalslag dus.

hv,u
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At 12:22 12/21/2008 +0100, ceesbink at xs4all.nl wrote:
>REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl
>
>En op zondagochtend ´diversive opinions´
>
>The Power of Prayer
>http://blog.beliefnet.com/progressiverevival/2008/12/the-power-of-prayer.html#comments
>
>  By: Renita Weems
>Friday December 19, 2008
>Categories: Evangelicals, Homosexuality, prayer and ritual
>Sure, Barack Obama's choice of Rick Warren for the inaugural prayer proves
>nothing more probably than that Obama is a consummate politician. Obama
>will do what he has to do to win over voters. And he's probably figured
>out that letting Warren pray at the inauguration is a safe gesture and a
>symbolic way to extend an olive branch to a block of voters he has yet to
>win over en masse.
>
>And so Obama begins his presidency like presidents before him, placating
>religious conservatives, in this case the New Right.  Leaving the rest of
>us to be content with symbols from the Old Left (no disrespect to Rev. Joe
>Lowry and Queen of Soul Aretha Franklin).
>
>I know progressive Christians are supposed to be won over by the fact that
>Rick Warren is allegedly the face of a kinder, gentler generation of
>Evangelicals. But we're not. Warren is as against women's equality,
>against gay rights, anti-choice, and anti-stem cell research as the old
>Right he fancies himself to replace. He has admitted that the main
>difference between himself and old style religious conservative James
>Dobson is a matter of tone.
>
>So, it's been decided. Rick Warren's smiling, right wing, socially
>conservative, anti-gay, anti-women's rights biblical preaching has been
>deemed to be not as divisive as the blistering prophetic denunciations of
>American imperalism by his former pastor Jeremiah Wright. Reaching out to
>Warren reaps more political capital for Obama than does reaching out to
>Wright. The pro-gay rights man whose fiery preaching nurtured Obama into
>becoming the community organizer he is at heart remains a pariah, banished
>from the inaugural platform and the American public. The man whose
>anti-gay message is overshadowed by the fact that he represents the face
>of millions of conservative voters gets to pray for the country.
>
>So what? It's only a prayer. It's not like Warren's been invited to help
>set policy. Those who say this obviously know nothing about the importance
>of symbols, and even less about the power of prayer
>
>Comments
>Steve Real
>December 19, 2008 9:42 PM
>http://www.realpolitiks.blogspot.com/
>
>They're Only Jews Anyways
>
>Who cares if Rick Warren is a member of the NAZI party?
>What's it matter to you? They are only Jews anyways...
>Do you know what I mean?
>
>We're racially superior to them
>and I doubt that all this "Adolf talk" will amount to anything anyways? I
>see no reason why Barack Obama should worry about the Jews. The Jews only
>make up a fraction of the population and I think it's about time to put
>them in their rightful place.
>
>There's only one solution to Rick Warren's "Jewish Problem" and that's the
>final solution.
>
>2.
>It's Called Politikal "Fear Conditioning"
>
>I admit this piece was put together
>to get an emotional response from people.
>(I picked up this technic from Lee Atwater.
>
>I agree with with most people that the "Nazi thing"
>is so played out,
>but Rick Warren is a politikal religous entertainer
>and I'm calling him out on it.
>
>I'm using the modern Lee Atwater technic based
>on Ivan Pavlov's reponse theory; also known as "Classical conditioning" or
>Pavlovian or "Respondent Conditioning".
>"I ring the bell" (the Conditioned Stimulus)and conversely, presentation
>of the significant stimulus necessarily evokes an innate, often reflexive,
>response.
>
>Popular forms of classical conditioning that are used to study neural
>structures and functions that underlie learning and memory include fear
>conditioning..."
>
>Do you understand what "fear conditioning" is all about?
>(when comes to talking about it in modern politikal terms?)
>and how people like my good friend Lee Atwater
>used it on the masses to get a real world politikal win.
>ie. Willie Horton
>non-metaphysical stephen
>December 19, 2008 10:21 PM
>
>"So what? It's only a prayer. It's not like Warren's been invited to help
>set policy. Those who say this obviously know nothing about the importance
>of symbols, and even less about the power of prayer."
>
>This comment reminds me that God used Caiaphas and King Saul to prophesy.
>Can we not trust that God can use Rick Warren, who is surely no worse a
>sinner than any of us, to speak God's word?
>WBB
>December 20, 2008 8:47 AM
>
>Rick Warren no better - nor worse - than any other scammer who peddles
>fables about imaginary beings.
>
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