[Fwd: [Marxism] A letter from Barack Obama]

Tue Aug 5 01:23:20 CEST 2008

REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl

Ja, ik ben het boek aan het lezen. Ik ben het met je eens. Het is hier
nacht nu, dus sleep well!

Mark Giebels schreef:
> Heb je zijn boek gelezen (the audacity of hope) Hein? Daaraan maakt
> hij overtuigend duidelijk dat hij staat voor pragmatische politiek
> waarbij alle 'points of view' in overweging moeten worden genomen. In
> zijn campagne houdt hij stevig vast aan die uitgangspunten.
>
> Hillary en McCain staan voor oude ineffectieve polariserende
> oplossingen. Obama gaat voor pragmatische politiek obv beginselen. Er
> wordt inderdaad een enorme druk op hem uitgeoefend om meer rigide
> uitspraken te doen, en soms laat hij zich ertoe verleiden (binnen 16
> maanden terugtrekken uit Irak, of Jerusalem als hoofdstad van Israel
> bv), maar hopelijk weerstaat hij de verleiding vaak genoeg gedurende
> de campagne.
>
> Ik steun zijn beginselen en heb daarom veel meer vertrouwen in een
> toekomstig presidentschap van hem dan van McCain. Hopelijk is dat ook
> voldoende voor de gemiddelde Amerikaan.
>
> Groeten,
> Mark
>
> On 8/4/08, Hein van Meeteren <heinwvm at chello.nl> wrote:
>
>> Mark, zoals je weet was ik vorige week in Florida, en behalve de
>> noodzakeliijke bezoeken aan alle Disneyworlds en Aquatica's heb ik ook met
>> veel mensen gesproken.  Ik liep met een Obama T-shirt alvast wat te
>> campaignen, vrijwillig, haha, en ik heb veel mensen gesproken. De teneur bij
>> de meeste Obama aanhangers was dit: ik heb in de primaries voor hem gekozen,
>> maar ik moet eerst nog zien wat hij waar gaat maken. Hij is te vaag, te
>> lyrisch, te abstract.
>> Ik kan me daar dus veel bij voorstellen, bij die kritiek. Obama zou echt
>> moeten beginnen met superconcreet worden, concrete en begrote plannen
>> indienen, met beleidsconsequenties en financiële onderbouwing. Want de angst
>> die ik hoorde was ook: ja, dat gaat mij belasting kosten, en ik betaal al
>> zoveel en krijg al zo weinig.
>> Je weet, ik ben een groot supporter van onze Barack,  maar dat betekent niet
>> dat ik klakkeloos geloof wat hij zegt. Neem het gezondheidszorg-stelsel in
>> de US, quod non, wat is hij van plan? Hij wil het bereikbaar maken voor
>> "every citizen" (bravo) maar HOE? Wie betaalt het systeem?
>>
>> Als links, zelf Chomsky aanhangers, naar Barack overstappen, wat hebben ze
>> dan concreet voor ogen? Heb jij daar kijk op?
>>
>>
>>
>> Mark Giebels schreef:
>>
>>
>>> Hein, overal om me heen zie ik intellectuele left-wing Amerikanen
>>> enthousiast worden over Obama. Boekenkasten vol met Noam Chomsky,
>>> Naomi Wolfe, etc. Ze hadden de Amerikaanse politiek opgegeven. Maar
>>> vol hoop na de Primary winst tegen het Clinton machtsblok in de
>>> Democratic Party, gelooft men er nu ook echt even (?) in, dat
>>> verandering in Washington mogelijk kan zijn.
>>>
>>> Terecvht of niet, je kunt je de frustratie van het politieke
>>> machtsblok op links voorstellen.... Alle supporters lopen weg naar
>>> Obama. Deze email geeft dat uitstekend weer. Dank Antid.
>>>
>>> Veel van de discussies om me heen gaan trouwens over de vraag of Obama
>>> een eendagsvlieg is, of dat structurele verandering mogelijk is of
>>> zelfs onoverkomelijk vanwege een nieuwe generatie Amerikanen die de
>>> macht langszaam gaat overnemen. We'll see. Maar hoe het ook zal
>>> aflopen, in ieder geval zal progressief en Links Amerika niet meer
>>> hetzelfde zijn na Obama. Het zijn interessante tijden hier.
>>>
>>> Groeten,
>>> Mark Giebels
>>>
>>> On Mon, Aug 4, 2008 at 2:36 AM, Hein van Meeteren <heinwvm at chello.nl>
>>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl
>>>>
>>>> Wat een hoax.
>>>>
>>>> Antid Oto schreef:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> REPLY TO: D66 at nic.surfnet.nl
>>>>>
>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
>>>>> Subject:     [Marxism] A letter from Barack Obama
>>>>> Date:     Sun, 03 Aug 2008 15:39:35 -0400
>>>>> From:     Louis Proyect <lnp3 at panix.com>
>>>>> Reply-To:     Activists and scholars in Marxist tradition
>>>>> <marxism at lists.econ.utah.edu>
>>>>> To:     aorta <aorta at home.nl>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> John Halle, who teaches music at Bard College and has been active
>>>>> with the Green Party, forwarded me a letter he received recently from
>>>>> the Democratic Party hopeful:
>>>>>
>>>>> Dear friends on the left,
>>>>>
>>>>> Hobgoblins, small minds and stupid consistency go together, as Locke
>>>>> reminded us, so I suppose it shouldn't have come as a surprise that a
>>>>> cast of
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> <http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080818/open_letter>"progressive
>>
>>>>> leaders" has again assembled locust-like at the waning stages of the
>>>>> electoral cycle to "urge me to listen to the voice of the people" and
>>>>> not "to retreat from the stands that have been the signature of (my)
>>>>> campaign."
>>>>>
>>>>> You then proceed to itemize some of "the core commitments shared by
>>>>> many who have supported your campaign " and which you seem to
>>>>> believe-despite virtually all evidence to the contrary- are shared by
>>>>>
>> me.
>>
>>>>> The left has never been much for realism-though here the rose colored
>>>>> perceptions have a strikingly hallucinogenic character.
>>>>>
>>>>> For example, I am claimed to have professed a commitment to
>>>>> "universal health care."  May I remind you that even in the primary
>>>>> debates, where one might have expected some attention to the
>>>>> grassroots base of the party, I explicitly and boldly rejected
>>>>> universal health care.  The latter was associated with my opponent
>>>>> Mrs. Clinton and while neither of us has any intention of addressing
>>>>> the root of the health care crisis, namely the for-profit health care
>>>>> insurance industry which has funded both of our campaigns lavishly,
>>>>> my "solution" as Paul Krugman noted at the time was well to the right
>>>>> of that of the DLC's initial choice of candidate.
>>>>>
>>>>> It does not escape my notice, incidentally, that your communiqué
>>>>> fails to even mention the health care delivery system which you, and
>>>>> most americans for that matter, support, namely single payer. I take
>>>>> this as a validation of what is perhaps the primary function of my
>>>>> campaign: to extract from the realm of the possible and consign to
>>>>> the realm of the unthinkable and the unutterable what is for most of
>>>>> the civilized world economic common sense and common moral
>>>>> decency.  I am happy to report that your letter is a strong
>>>>> indication of my success in having achieved this transformation, one
>>>>> which,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>> <http://www.blackagendareport.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=697&Itemid=34>as
>>
>>>>> Adolph Reed has written, amounts to nothing less than the functional
>>>>> eradication of the left.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thus, to take another indication, while you have yet to notice it, so
>>>>> too into the Orwellian memory hole has gone the hope that our nation
>>>>> will "shed its warlike stance around the globe and focus on
>>>>> diplomacy" as a means of resolving conflicts.  Allow me to direct you
>>>>> to my website where I call for 92,000 new troops, the redeployment of
>>>>> those soldiers removed from Iraq to an intensified conflict in
>>>>> Afghanistan-and possibly Pakistan.  Also included in most of my
>>>>> recent foreign policy addresses are calls for unilateral action
>>>>> against governments suspected of support for terrorism not to mention
>>>>> my repeated threats against Iran and Venezuela.
>>>>>
>>>>> Also consigned to the realm of far-left fantasy is "an environmental
>>>>> policy that transforms the economy by shifting billions of dollars
>>>>> from the consumption of fossil fuels to alternative energy
>>>>> sources".  In his previous capacity as chief lobbyist for energy
>>>>> giant Exelon, my campaign manager David Axelrod has spoken eloquently
>>>>> of the need to ramp up the construction of nuclear power
>>>>> plants.  That's what I mean by "alternative" and please rest assured
>>>>> that Mr. Axelrod will serve as a strong voice for this "alternative"
>>>>> in my administration. i will also invest in "alternative energy"
>>>>> through continuing subsidies to corn based ethanol insodoing securing
>>>>> payback to the farm behemoth Archer Daniels Midland for having
>>>>> bankrolled my campaign at the crucial initial stages.   Another
>>>>> "alternative energy source" embraced by me is "clean coal" and the
>>>>> industry which helped me ascend to the first rungs of the political
>>>>> ladder in Illinois.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suggest that you keep the just mentioned facts in mind in
>>>>> considering the likelihood of my  "reform(ing) of the political
>>>>> process that reduces the influence of money and corporate lobbyists
>>>>> and amplifies the voices of ordinary people" as well as the
>>>>> likelihood of "an ongoing and constructive dialogue with (me) when (I
>>>>> am) elected President."
>>>>>
>>>>> And then you wake up, as my wife likes to say.
>>>>>
>>>>> And when you do wake up, you will realize that you are left with one
>>>>> option: "challenging" me.  But please bear in mind that with the new
>>>>> surveillance capacities which I authorized as Senator and which will
>>>>> be available to me as President, challenging the executive branch is
>>>>> no longer the fun and games it was in the past.  I have, of course,
>>>>> no intention of revealing sources and methods, but for the moment
>>>>> let's just say that I know what you had for breakfast this morning.
>>>>>
>>>>> That said, you may rest assured it is quite unlikely that I will need
>>>>> to exercise these powers for any purposes beyond my own personal
>>>>> amusement.
>>>>>
>>>>> For indeed I, and the corporate executives, white shoe law firms, big
>>>>> money lobbyists and their numerous apologists are in your debt for
>>>>> having led so many leftists into the abattoir which is my campaign.
>>>>> The movement which only a few years ago assembled millions in the
>>>>> streets of Manhattan, Los Angeles, San Francisco, Chicago and other
>>>>> cities is in shambles-unable to organize a gathering beyond a few old
>>>>> timers at a street corner, let alone the kind of action which might
>>>>> actually cause me and my base to take notice.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is no need for a howitzer when the tiniest fly swatter will do
>>>>> quite nicely against the political force which you now represent.
>>>>>
>>>>> And so in conclusion allow me to cite the deathless interrogatory of
>>>>> Clint Eastwood which applies not just to my campaign but which is
>>>>> routinely appealed to, consciously or not, by all politicians of any
>>>>> stripe:
>>>>>
>>>>> "What are you going to do about it, Punk?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Given that, for the past generation, you have repeatedly hoisted the
>>>>> white flag before the battle even began, the smart money is on your
>>>>> doing absolutely nothing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Warmest Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Barack
>>>>>
>>>>> **********
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>>>>>
>>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

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