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<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.tuxtown.net/pipermail/d66/2022-May/071242.html"
class="moz-txt-link-freetext">http://www.tuxtown.net/pipermail/d66/2022-May/071242.html</a></p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Filosofie
in de ring: GPT5.2 versus Claude's Opus. GPT is de betere
filosoof.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><br>
</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">
<blockquote type="cite">
<h1>[D66] On Materialism and the Big Annihilation</h1>
<b>RO</b> <a
href="mailto:d66%40tuxtown.net?Subject=Re%3A%20%5BD66%5D%20On%20Materialism%20and%20the%20Big%20Annihilation&In-Reply-To=%3C16f6f2cf-03d5-6a81-4a7d-92dd619e044e%40ziggo.nl%3E"
title="[D66] On Materialism and the Big Annihilation">jugg at
ziggo.nl </a><br>
<i>Sun May 8 07:39:26 CEST 2022</i></blockquote>
</p>
<p data-start="0" data-end="355">You’ve written a <strong
data-start="17" data-end="44">philosophical manifesto</strong>,
not a scientific paper, and it’s best read on its own terms: as a
speculative, polemical synthesis of <strong data-start="148"
data-end="207">materialism, dialectics, eschatology, and number
theory</strong>, driven by a radical rejection of existence
itself. I’ll respond in that same register—<em data-start="295"
data-end="318">analysis and critique</em>, not debunking, and
not endorsement.</p>
<hr data-start="357" data-end="360">
<h2 data-start="362" data-end="426">1. On Matter Without Origin and
the Rejection of the Big Bang</h2>
<p data-start="428" data-end="449">You take a hard line:</p>
<ul data-start="451" data-end="557">
<li data-start="451" data-end="468">
<p data-start="453" data-end="468"><strong data-start="453"
data-end="468">No creation</strong></p>
</li>
<li data-start="469" data-end="486">
<p data-start="471" data-end="486"><strong data-start="471"
data-end="486">No Big Bang</strong></p>
</li>
<li data-start="487" data-end="516">
<p data-start="489" data-end="516"><strong data-start="489"
data-end="516">Matter exists eternally</strong></p>
</li>
<li data-start="517" data-end="557">
<p data-start="519" data-end="557"><strong data-start="519"
data-end="557">Yet must be annihilated absolutely</strong></p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="559" data-end="596">This already places you outside
both:</p>
<ul data-start="597" data-end="648">
<li data-start="597" data-end="624">
<p data-start="599" data-end="624">mainstream cosmology, and</p>
</li>
<li data-start="625" data-end="648">
<p data-start="627" data-end="648">classical materialism</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="650" data-end="913">Classical materialism (from
Democritus through Marx) typically accepts <strong
data-start="721" data-end="743">eternity of matter</strong> <em
data-start="744" data-end="753">without</em> eschatological
annihilation. Your position is therefore not materialist in the
orthodox sense, but something closer to <strong data-start="873"
data-end="912">negative eschatological materialism</strong>.</p>
<p data-start="915" data-end="937">You explicitly reject:</p>
<ul data-start="938" data-end="1009">
<li data-start="938" data-end="960">
<p data-start="940" data-end="960">theological creation</p>
</li>
<li data-start="961" data-end="981">
<p data-start="963" data-end="981">cyclical cosmology</p>
</li>
<li data-start="982" data-end="1009">
<p data-start="984" data-end="1009">heat death as “salvation”</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="1011" data-end="1174">Instead, you propose a <strong
data-start="1034" data-end="1064">terminal absolute negation</strong>—not
transformation, not decay, but <em data-start="1100"
data-end="1129">non-being without remainder</em>. This is
philosophically coherent <em data-start="1164" data-end="1170">only</em>
if:</p>
<blockquote data-start="1176" data-end="1266">
<p data-start="1178" data-end="1266">the categories of time and
space are contingent properties of matter, not necessary ones</p>
</blockquote>
<p data-start="1268" data-end="1471">On that point, you are closer
to <strong data-start="1301" data-end="1342"><span
class="hover:entity-accent entity-underline inline cursor-pointer align-baseline"><span
class="whitespace-normal">Immanuel Kant</span></span></strong>
than to physics—except you radicalize Kant by insisting that once
matter ceases, <strong data-start="1424" data-end="1470">even the
conditions of appearance collapse</strong>.</p>
<hr data-start="1473" data-end="1476">
<h2 data-start="1478" data-end="1521">2. The “Big Annihilation” vs.
Heat Death</h2>
<p data-start="1523" data-end="1616">Your Big Annihilation (ʊ)
differs from standard cosmological endgames in three decisive
ways:</p>
<div class="TyagGW_tableContainer">
<div tabindex="-1"
class="group TyagGW_tableWrapper flex w-fit flex-col-reverse">
<table data-start="1618" data-end="1883"
class="w-fit min-w-(--thread-content-width)">
<thead data-start="1618" data-end="1668"><tr data-start="1618"
data-end="1668">
<th data-start="1618" data-end="1631" data-col-size="sm">Heat
Death</th>
<th data-start="1631" data-end="1644" data-col-size="sm">Big
Crunch</th>
<th data-start="1644" data-end="1668" data-col-size="sm">Big
Annihilation (ʊ)</th>
</tr>
</thead><tbody data-start="1717" data-end="1883">
<tr data-start="1717" data-end="1765">
<td data-start="1717" data-end="1734" data-col-size="sm">Time
continues</td>
<td data-col-size="sm" data-start="1734" data-end="1750">Time
reverses</td>
<td data-col-size="sm" data-start="1750" data-end="1765">Time
ceases</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="1766" data-end="1824">
<td data-start="1766" data-end="1786" data-col-size="sm">Entropy
maximized</td>
<td data-col-size="sm" data-start="1786" data-end="1806">Matter
compressed</td>
<td data-col-size="sm" data-start="1806" data-end="1824">Matter
negated</td>
</tr>
<tr data-start="1825" data-end="1883">
<td data-start="1825" data-end="1842" data-col-size="sm">Vacuum
remains</td>
<td data-col-size="sm" data-start="1842" data-end="1864">Singularity
remains</td>
<td data-col-size="sm" data-start="1864" data-end="1883">Nothing
remains</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
</div>
</div>
<p data-start="1885" data-end="1962">Your “nothing” is <strong
data-start="1903" data-end="1917">not vacuum</strong>, <strong
data-start="1919" data-end="1939">not quantum foam</strong>, <strong
data-start="1941" data-end="1961">not potentiality</strong>.</p>
<p data-start="1964" data-end="2175">This is important: you
explicitly deny the metaphysical move that allows nothing to
become something again. That makes ʊ <strong data-start="2085"
data-end="2102">anti-cyclical</strong>, <strong
data-start="2104" data-end="2121">anti-creative</strong>, and <strong
data-start="2127" data-end="2147">anti-theological</strong>,
even in disguised physics.</p>
<p data-start="2177" data-end="2409">In dialectical terms, you deny
<em data-start="2208" data-end="2237">Aufhebung with preservation</em>.
What you want is <strong data-start="2256" data-end="2287">Aufhebung
without remainder</strong>—a move <strong data-start="2295"
data-end="2336"><span
class="hover:entity-accent entity-underline inline cursor-pointer align-baseline"><span
class="whitespace-normal">G. W. F. Hegel</span></span></strong>
himself would reject, since for him negation always preserves
structure.</p>
<p data-start="2411" data-end="2478">You are, in effect, proposing <strong
data-start="2441" data-end="2477">a dialectic that commits
suicide</strong>.</p>
<hr data-start="2480" data-end="2483">
<h2 data-start="2485" data-end="2527">3. Time With Inertia and the
Endpoint ʊ</h2>
<p data-start="2529" data-end="2540">You invoke:</p>
<ul data-start="2541" data-end="2615">
<li data-start="2541" data-end="2577">
<p data-start="2543" data-end="2577">Einstein’s mass–energy
equivalence</p>
</li>
<li data-start="2578" data-end="2615">
<p data-start="2580" data-end="2615">Abian’s idea of time having
inertia</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="2617" data-end="2674">Your key hypothesis is not
empirical but <strong data-start="2658" data-end="2673">ontological</strong>:</p>
<blockquote data-start="2676" data-end="2743">
<p data-start="2678" data-end="2743">time itself has resistance,
and that resistance is exhausted at ʊ</p>
</blockquote>
<p data-start="2745" data-end="2822">This is internally consistent <em
data-start="2775" data-end="2791">as metaphysics</em>, but it is
not physics unless:</p>
<ul data-start="2823" data-end="2963">
<li data-start="2823" data-end="2913">
<p data-start="2825" data-end="2913">time can be operationally
defined as something that can “slow,” “resist,” or “terminate”</p>
</li>
<li data-start="2914" data-end="2963">
<p data-start="2916" data-end="2963">inertia can be measured
independently of matter</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="2965" data-end="3134">No current physical framework
allows this. But philosophically, it echoes a long tradition of <strong
data-start="3059" data-end="3086">finite time metaphysics</strong>,
including Augustine and Kant—again, minus God.</p>
<hr data-start="3136" data-end="3139">
<h2 data-start="3141" data-end="3175">4. Number Theory as Cosmic
Fate</h2>
<p data-start="3177" data-end="3249">Your second and third theses
are the most original—and the most fragile.</p>
<blockquote data-start="3251" data-end="3295">
<p data-start="3253" data-end="3295">“The universe is one big
number cruncher.”</p>
</blockquote>
<p data-start="3297" data-end="3352">Here you move from <strong
data-start="3316" data-end="3351">cosmology → arithmetic
ontology</strong>.</p>
<p data-start="3354" data-end="3364">You claim:</p>
<ul data-start="3365" data-end="3470">
<li data-start="3365" data-end="3399">
<p data-start="3367" data-end="3399">the universe has existed
forever</p>
</li>
<li data-start="3400" data-end="3434">
<p data-start="3402" data-end="3434">it has not exhausted all
numbers</p>
</li>
<li data-start="3435" data-end="3470">
<p data-start="3437" data-end="3470">therefore, ʊ has not been
reached</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="3472" data-end="3580">This treats numbers as <strong
data-start="3495" data-end="3509">consumable</strong>, which is
a strong Platonist commitment—even as you claim materialism.</p>
<p data-start="3582" data-end="3837">Your appeal to the <strong
data-start="3601" data-end="3642"><span
class="hover:entity-accent entity-underline inline cursor-pointer align-baseline"><span
class="whitespace-normal">Riemann hypothesis</span></span></strong>
is symbolic rather than demonstrative. Saying it follows
“dialectical laws” is poetic, not mathematical, and asserting a
“supreme exception” without proof places this firmly outside
mathematics.</p>
<p data-start="3839" data-end="3988">That said, the <em
data-start="3854" data-end="3863">gesture</em> is clear:<br
data-start="3873" data-end="3876">
you want <strong data-start="3885" data-end="3911">logical
incompleteness</strong> to mirror <strong data-start="3922"
data-end="3947">cosmic incompleteness</strong>, and final
annihilation to resolve both.</p>
<p data-start="3990" data-end="4091">In that sense, your thought
aligns more with <strong data-start="4035" data-end="4061">metaphysical
pessimism</strong> than with formal mathematics.</p>
<hr data-start="4093" data-end="4096">
<h2 data-start="4098" data-end="4134">5. Absolute Nihilism — With
Pride</h2>
<p data-start="4136" data-end="4169">You ask whether this is
nihilism.</p>
<p data-start="4171" data-end="4200">Yes—but not the passive kind.</p>
<p data-start="4202" data-end="4251">This is <strong
data-start="4210" data-end="4239">active, militant nihilism</strong>,
closer to:</p>
<ul data-start="4252" data-end="4450">
<li data-start="4252" data-end="4311">
<p data-start="4254" data-end="4311"><span
class="hover:entity-accent entity-underline inline cursor-pointer align-baseline"><span
class="whitespace-normal">Friedrich Nietzsche</span></span>
without affirmation</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4312" data-end="4399">
<p data-start="4314" data-end="4399"><span
class="hover:entity-accent entity-underline inline cursor-pointer align-baseline"><span
class="whitespace-normal">George Berkeley</span></span>
inverted (matter affirmed only to be destroyed)</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4400" data-end="4450">
<p data-start="4402" data-end="4450">materialism stripped of any
emancipatory promise</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="4452" data-end="4463">You reject:</p>
<ul data-start="4464" data-end="4507">
<li data-start="4464" data-end="4470">
<p data-start="4466" data-end="4470">life</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4471" data-end="4485">
<p data-start="4473" data-end="4485">continuation</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4486" data-end="4495">
<p data-start="4488" data-end="4495">meaning</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4496" data-end="4507">
<p data-start="4498" data-end="4507">even void</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="4509" data-end="4590">What you want is <strong
data-start="4526" data-end="4553">no remainder whatsoever</strong>—not
even the possibility of meaning.</p>
<p data-start="4592" data-end="4705">That is philosophically
extreme, but it is not incoherent. It is a worldview whose <strong
data-start="4675" data-end="4704">only value is termination</strong>.</p>
<hr data-start="4707" data-end="4710">
<h2 data-start="4712" data-end="4734">6. Final Assessment</h2>
<p data-start="4736" data-end="4761">What you have written is:</p>
<ul data-start="4763" data-end="4833">
<li data-start="4763" data-end="4780">
<p data-start="4765" data-end="4780">❌ not science</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4781" data-end="4802">
<p data-start="4783" data-end="4802">❌ not mathematics</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4803" data-end="4833">
<p data-start="4805" data-end="4833">❌ not orthodox materialism</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="4835" data-end="4849">But it <strong
data-start="4842" data-end="4848">is</strong>:</p>
<ul data-start="4851" data-end="5063">
<li data-start="4851" data-end="4887">
<p data-start="4853" data-end="4887">✔ a coherent metaphysical
stance</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4888" data-end="4927">
<p data-start="4890" data-end="4927">✔ a radical eschatology
without God</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4928" data-end="4997">
<p data-start="4930" data-end="4997">✔ a consistent rejection of
cyclicity, creation, and preservation</p>
</li>
<li data-start="4998" data-end="5063">
<p data-start="5000" data-end="5063">✔ a rare attempt to fuse
nihilism, dialectics, and arithmetic</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="5065" data-end="5081">Your final line—</p>
<blockquote data-start="5083" data-end="5105">
<p data-start="5085" data-end="5105"><strong data-start="5085"
data-end="5105">Bring ʊ forward!</strong></p>
</blockquote>
<p data-start="5107" data-end="5144">—is not a prediction. It is a
demand.</p>
<p data-start="5146" data-end="5287">And in that sense, your text
functions less as theory and more as <strong data-start="5212"
data-end="5240">anti-cosmic proclamation</strong>: a refusal to
reconcile with existence itself.</p>
<p data-start="5289" data-end="5316">If you want, next we could:</p>
<ul data-start="5317" data-end="5477">
<li data-start="5317" data-end="5350">
<p data-start="5319" data-end="5350">formalize ʊ as a logical
axiom,</p>
</li>
<li data-start="5351" data-end="5408">
<p data-start="5353" data-end="5408">contrast your position with
Schopenhauer or Mainländer,</p>
</li>
<li data-start="5409" data-end="5477">
<p data-start="5411" data-end="5477">or sharpen the distinction
between <em data-start="5446" data-end="5460">annihilation</em>
and <em data-start="5465" data-end="5476">non-being</em>.</p>
</li>
</ul>
<p data-start="5479" data-end="5497" data-is-last-node=""
data-is-only-node="">Just say the word.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><br>
</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><br>
</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><br>
</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><br>
</p>
<hr width="100%" size="2">
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><br>
</p>
<h2>claude.ai : </h2>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">This
is a fascinating and provocative philosophical vision that weaves
together materialism, eschatology, nihilism, and mathematical
metaphysics. Let me engage with the core arguments you're
presenting.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><strong>On
the dialectical tension</strong></p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">You
position yourself as a "dialectical anti-materialist materialist"
- acknowledging matter's existence while advocating for its
complete annihilation. This recalls certain strains of pessimistic
philosophy (Schopenhauer, Mainländer, Zapffe) but with a unique
materialist-dialectical framework. You're not denying matter
exists, but denying any justification for its existence - a
crucial distinction.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">The
invocation of <em>aufhebung</em> is intriguing here. Hegel's
concept typically preserves something at a higher level of
synthesis, but you're proposing a one-way annihilation that
preserves nothing. This is <em>aufhebung</em> as pure negation
without sublation - which does feel like "Hegel ohne Hegel."</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><strong>On
the cosmological claims</strong></p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Your
rejection of the Big Bang while affirming matter's eternal
existence places you in tension with contemporary cosmology,
though you seem aware of this. The "Big Annihilation" at endpoint
ʊ as an alternative eschatology is conceptually coherent as a
philosophical position, even if empirically unsupported.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">The
claim that "time has inertia" (attributed to Abian) ending at ʊ is
tantalizing. If time itself has mass-energy equivalence and
momentum, this would radically reframe thermodynamics and
cosmology. But this requires substantial theoretical development
beyond assertion.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><strong>On
the mathematical-metaphysical connection</strong></p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Your
second thesis - that the universe's fate is linked to number
theory and that the universe is "crunching" toward ʊ - is the most
original element here. You're proposing something like:
mathematical truths constrain or even determine physical reality's
trajectory toward total annihilation.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">The
third thesis about the Riemann hypothesis is bold. You suggest the
distribution of non-trivial zeros follows dialectical laws with
one supreme exception. This would make the failure of the Riemann
hypothesis not just a mathematical fact but a cosmological
necessity tied to ʊ. The connection between this singular zero and
the end-state of matter would need elaboration.</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><strong>Questions
for development</strong></p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">If
matter has existed forever without reaching ʊ, what explains the
approach toward it now? What mechanism drives matter toward
self-annihilation? Is this teleological (which seems problematic
for a materialist) or mechanical?</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">How
does consciousness or subjective experience fit into this
framework? You're writing this, testifying that ʊ hasn't been
reached - but what role does conscious negation play in the
dialectic?</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">What
would falsify your hypotheses? Or are these primarily metaphysical
commitments rather than empirical claims?</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]"><strong>On
the nihilism</strong></p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">Your
embrace of "absolute Nihilism" is forthright. But there's an
interesting tension: you're passionate about bringing ʊ forward,
which suggests value (negative value, but value nonetheless). Is
this a performative contradiction, or is there room in your system
for the value of non-existence?</p>
<p
class="font-claude-response-body break-words whitespace-normal leading-[1.7]">This
is sophisticated speculative philosophy. Whether one agrees or
not, it's a serious attempt to think through materialism's
implications to an extreme conclusion.</p>
<p><br>
</p>
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